May 22, 2012, 05:51:25 AM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
:
Home
Forum
Help
Recent Posts
Search
Calendar
Gallery
Login
Register
Forum
>
SASCA
>
Pit Road
>
Upper Torso Restraints
Pages: [
1
]
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Upper Torso Restraints (Read 403 times)
dwall
BOD
Master of the Stopwatch
Posts: 289
Upper Torso Restraints
«
on:
June 27, 2011, 03:02:58 PM »
The following is provided for general information. We have had several conversations at Tech Inspection lately concerning the proper installation of upper torso restraints.
THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT IN AUTOCROSS/SOLO FOR UPPER TORSO RESTRAINTS BUT IF YOU DECIDE TO INSTALL/USE THEM, THS FOLLOWING IS A GUIDE.
Go to
www.schrothracing.com
At the bottom is a tab lebeled "Quick Links."
One Quick Link is "Competition Harness Instructions."
Pages 12 through 15 cover "Lap- Shoulder- and Anti sub- Strap Routing."
This clearly shows that Scroth mandates an angle of
20 degrees or less
for straps behind the shoulder.
Logged
D Wall
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
(This post may or may not include elements of sarcasm, satire, irony, absurdity, analogy, exaggeration, ridicule and/or other forms of humor. Furthermore, no claims are made as to the quality, coherence or clarity of said humor elements.)
ralph
Cone Killer
Posts: 108
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #1 on:
June 28, 2011, 06:19:08 PM »
Great! I don't believe SCCA has adopted Scroth Racing standards at this time. I have been through the 2011 SCCA rules and find absolutely no limitation on the angle between the harness bar and the top of the seats. Does SASCA go by Scroth Racing standards or SCCA?
Logged
dwall
BOD
Master of the Stopwatch
Posts: 289
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #2 on:
June 28, 2011, 06:48:33 PM »
I believe that if SCCA takes no stand on proper installation and the manufacturer does, then SASCA should adhere to the manufacturer's guidelines. Like the post says, the SCCA doesn't require upper torso restraints in Autocross/solo. There is no rule. Schroth, and other manufacturers, publish guidelines developed through extensive testing and experience. The guidelines are published to prevent injury and make the sport safe and fun for everybody and SASCA should use the guidelines for the same reason. Neither SASCA nor SCCA have rules covering the manufacture ... or installation ... of a helmet. They require adherence to standards developed by others.
And common sense.
Logged
D Wall
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
(This post may or may not include elements of sarcasm, satire, irony, absurdity, analogy, exaggeration, ridicule and/or other forms of humor. Furthermore, no claims are made as to the quality, coherence or clarity of said humor elements.)
dwall
BOD
Master of the Stopwatch
Posts: 289
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #3 on:
June 28, 2011, 07:51:42 PM »
From the SCCA web site:
A DRIVER'S GUIDE TO SAFE MOTOR SPORT
Draft of September 2005
Page 11
Section 4 SAFETY HARNESSES
Rule 3
"ENsure that the belt anchorage points are installed on the car by a professional according to
the latest guidelines from the manufacturer
and the FIA."
Bold added by me.
Logged
D Wall
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
(This post may or may not include elements of sarcasm, satire, irony, absurdity, analogy, exaggeration, ridicule and/or other forms of humor. Furthermore, no claims are made as to the quality, coherence or clarity of said humor elements.)
tconklin
BOD
Master of the Stopwatch
Posts: 426
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #4 on:
June 28, 2011, 08:08:51 PM »
Quote
Great! I don't believe SCCA has adopted Scroth Racing standards at this time. I have been through the 2011 SCCA rules and find absolutely no limitation on the angle between the harness bar and the top of the seats. Does SASCA go by Scroth Racing standards or SCCA?
As Dalton said in the original post
Quote
The following is provided for general information. We have had several conversations at Tech Inspection lately concerning the proper installation of upper torso restraints.
THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT IN AUTOCROSS/SOLO FOR UPPER TORSO RESTRAINTS BUT IF YOU DECIDE TO INSTALL/USE THEM, THS FOLLOWING IS A GUIDE.
Again this is a guide, if you decide to install the belt improperly and crush you vertebrae that's totally up to you and the club is not liable.
Logged
Tom C
SASCA Membership Chair
Speed3
Cone Killer
Posts: 148
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #5 on:
June 28, 2011, 09:00:28 PM »
The link to the instructions are a great read. I highly suggest anyone using an upper torso/shoulder harness system to review it. Please use your noggin to make sure YOU are safe in YOUR vehicle. No sense in spending money on a system that could potentially cause you serious injury (or death) in an accident because it is installed incorrectly. Like Dalton stated, the manufacturers go to great length and cost expense to make sure that the systems perform properly, and avoid further injuries in an accident. For liability reasons, they tend to be correct in regards to proper installation.
Logged
There's nothing better than a 2.4L V8 engine screaming to 18,000RPM!
Eric
Executive Secretary
2010 Mazdaspeed 3 - DSP #90
ralph
Cone Killer
Posts: 108
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #6 on:
June 29, 2011, 08:16:45 AM »
Sorry Dalton but I'm having trouble getting on board with this. I have an I/O Port Race Roll Bar installed in my convertible that was specifically designed, built, and sold for my car. It has a harness bar built into the roll bar that was designed, built and sold for the seats in my car. If I attach upper torso retraints (shoulder belts) to the harness bar, how can they be installed wrong or not in compliance with the manufacture's recommendations? Doesn't common sense say that I am safer with this setup than I would be with the stock safety belts that came in the car? If I understand your logic correctly, you would require, or recommend, that I use the stock safety belts when autocrossing because the angle my shoulder belts make with the seats doesn't comply with Scroth recommendations. That doesn't make sense to me.
Logged
dwall
BOD
Master of the Stopwatch
Posts: 289
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #7 on:
June 29, 2011, 09:19:49 AM »
I don't remember the setup in your car. I find it difficult to picture a harness bar on a legitimate roll cage that doesn't put the shoulder belts at a safe, proper angle and length. That's what a harness bar is for, to meet this specific requirement, to provide a mounting point at a correct angle. The seat doesn't enter into it. If the seat has a FIA certification label, and has slots for the shoulder harness to pass through, it makes the harness bar redundent. If not, the seat only matters in that it establishes shoulder height. The only requirement for SCCA and SASCA is the OEM lap and/or cross-chest belt or equal. An upper torso restraint is an added, potentially dangerous, feature. I have had more than one conversation this year with people who have been told by after market vendors that the only factor in a shoulder belt installation is that the OEM mounting points or something better be used. That has cost some of them money and potentially put them at risk.
Unless the BoD fires me as Tech Inspector, I will continue to insist that improper upper torso restraint installations (that is: installatoins that do not meet FIA or manufacturer's published guidelines) NOT BE USED at SASCA autocross events.
Logged
D Wall
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
(This post may or may not include elements of sarcasm, satire, irony, absurdity, analogy, exaggeration, ridicule and/or other forms of humor. Furthermore, no claims are made as to the quality, coherence or clarity of said humor elements.)
John Patterson
Master of the Stopwatch
Posts: 302
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #8 on:
June 30, 2011, 08:35:54 PM »
I am not so sure that driver's restraints, in this case, shoulder harnesses, must meet any current installation requirements or recommendations (for autocrossing) after reading the SCCA definition of a solo event, except in the case of open top cars. The requirements for multi-point harnesses and their correct installation are spelled out in the 2011 GCR for road-racing.
1.2.1 Solo Event (2011 GCR)
A Solo event is an automotive competition in which one car at a time negotiates a prescribed course, with finishing position based on the time required to complete the course plus any penalties incurred. Where course conditions permit, more than one car may be on course at a time if they are separated by adequate time and distance.
A Solo event is a non-speed driving skill contest
such as, but not limited to autocrosses and slaloms. These events are run on short courses that emphasize car handling and agility rather than speed or power. Competition licenses are not required, and hazards to spectators, participants, and property do not exceed those encountered in normal, legal highway driving. All Solo events must be SCCA sanctioned.
3.3.1 Driver Restraints (From the 2011 Solo Rule Book)
Seat lap belts are required in all cars, and must be installed in cars with passive restraint systems that do not include a lap belt. Installation and the use of shoulder belts or harnesses is strongly recommended, however non-factory upper body restraints may only be used in open cars, cars with targa-tops in the open position, or cars with T-tops in the open position when two conditions are met:
A. The roll structure (roll bar) must meet either the requirements of Appendix C or the Club Racing General Competition Rules (GCR) 9.4.
B. The top of the roll structure may not be below the top of the driver’s helmet when the driver is in the normal driving position.
But, according to the SCCA GCR rules (for road racing) the proper restraint or harness system must meet the following rules:
9.3.19. DRIVER’S RESTRAINT SYSTEM (page 82 of the 2011 GCR)
All drivers in SCCA sanctioned speed events shall utilize either a 5, 6, or 7 point restraint harness meeting the following specifications. A 7 point restraint harness is recommended.
C. The shoulder harness shall be the over the shoulder type. There shall be a single release common to the seat belt and shoulder harness. When mounting belts and harnesses it is recommended that they be kept as short as reasonably possible to minimize stretch when loaded in an accident. The shoulder harness shall be mounted behind the driver and supported above a line drawn downward from the shoulder point at an angle of 20 degrees with the horizontal. The seat itself, or anything added only to the seat shall not be considered a suitable guide. Guides must be a part of the roll cage or a part of the car structure. Only separate shoulder straps are permitted. (“Y” type shoulder straps are not allowed). “H” type configuration is allowed.
«
Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 08:47:03 PM by John Patterson
»
Logged
Ricky Crow
Administrator
His Holiness of the Horizontal Pylon
Posts: 1108
Re: Upper Torso Restraints
«
Reply #9 on:
July 01, 2011, 08:31:52 AM »
I just spoke with Brian Harmer with the SCCA National Office to get clarification on the rule for harness use. He said that since a *lap belt* is the only belt that is absolutely required for Solo II, there are no rules as to how harnesses must be mounted in the vehicle.
With that said, I do think it is a good idea to inform folks of the dangers of using improperly mounted belts when it comes to driving around on the streets, where there is a legitimate risk of spinal compression in a frontal collision, but for the purposes of AutoCross, the technical ruling is that there is no rule on how they must be mounted.
Logged
- 2009-2012 SASCA President
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Oversteer scares the passenger(s),
Understeer scares the driver!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Pages: [
1
]
Print
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
SASCA
-----------------------------
=> Events
===> Results
=> General
=> Novice
=> Meetings
=> Pit Road
=> Misc
=> Course Design School
=> Trading Post
-----------------------------
Site News
-----------------------------
=> Site Problems and Issues
=> News and Announcements
=> SASCA Information
Loading...
SimplePortal 2.1.1